Pete McNeil has been riding bikes for as long as he can remember. At the age of 12 he started really upping his game, racing and riding wherever he could and always setting the bar a bit higher. Since his childhood riding days Pete has become an accomplished bike guide, racer and adventure leader, whose endeavours have taken him on a 2 year ride to New Zealand with his wife Alice, the infamous Silk Road Mountain Race and most recently the Highland 550.
We chat to Pete about ways to get started as a mountain bike guide, the myth of needing the newest gear before you set off for an adventure, and the strange quiet that comes after a big adventure.
Tune in!
calltoadventure
Um, so now onto today's pod so today we're chatting with Pete mcneil so pete is a bit of a bike Nut. He's a mountain bike guide a bike adventurer racer and expedition leader with nearly a couple of decades experience working in the outdoor industry. He's worked as a mountain bike guide right here in the uk in spain nepal. And even now in new zealand pete's also done a big old cycle tour from the uk out to new Zealand with his wife alice on their honeymoon would you believe it back in 2012 covering twenty thousand kilometers through twenty two countries over a couple of years. But he's also done some epic self-supported bike packing races including the notorious silk road mountain race and the highland trail five fifty which I'm pumped here a bit more about so without further ado pete how's it going.
Pete
Hey yeah, hey nice to speak you George I'm doing well a little bit chilly out here in my Caravan at the end of the field. But no I'm doing well.
calltoadventure
Yeah, we did. We did have a little chat about that in the intro. So if you see the condensation. Um, it's because Pete's chilling in the in the caravan ah on his at this new property. So ah, it. It looks very adventury anyway like full down jacket beanie on. It's ah it's ah so pete we and I was just thinking like well how did we connect and I think I'd seen you on a couple of different things. Maybe as I was following the silk road mounted by race and a couple of other bits and bobs.
Pete
That's just how I roll yet.
calltoadventure
But then we ended up working together given that you're a mountain bike guide and doing some cool stuff so we'll get into it and chat about that later because I know that you've got some cool things coming up as well. But normally we kick off with a few quick fire questions. So I'll just ask you a couple of questions. And just go for it First thing that kind of feels right? Okay, ready. Okay, first 1 10 tall bivy.
Pete
All right far away. Yeah gone.
Pete
These days tent I would say and yeah I do like a bivy but generally if I don't have to be moving super fast then tents are good. But yeah I like a bivy. Definitely yeah.
calltoadventure
Yeah I guess you are doing a lot of things that you just want to go sit. Although I think you actually had a tent for even some of your like hardcore bite races right? didn't you have a tent instead of a bivy foot like you took a 2 man tent on the is the the hup.
Pete
On the silk road race. Definitely yeah and I kind of like it's more of a sort of like if things went wrong in that kind of environment then you know you might be waiting a day or 2 to get picked up and waiting for a day at sort of three thousand metres in a bivy. Ah, probably wouldn't be that much fun and I kind of just thought you like play on the safe side and I guess yeah from a weight point of view. You carry a bit you probably carry a tarp if you're carrying a bivy anyway. So then you've kind of got that up sort of it's not too far off a lightman a lightweight tent and. And yeah, ultimately I like having I love sleeping out under the stars. That's great I wouldn't say I always have the best night's sleep in the bibi whereas like in a tent I feel like you've got your little controlled environment. Um, and yeah when it's like when it's actual necessity to get some sleep. Um.
calltoadventure
Um.
Pete
And you know rather than having the experience of sleeping outside if it's like as an as a you know it's a it' an assess necessary point then I kind of feel like yeah tent tent wins at the moment and and it keeps the midges out which is a good 1 in scotland.
calltoadventure
Yeah, favorite terrain to bike on you're gravel man Full Mountain Biker. What.
Pete
No I mean like my heart is always in the sort of the full mountain biking kind of environment and you know the the gnarly the better. Really so like what I like is really hard technical terrain that ideally I can go out and ride day after day after day after day. And and that quite often means a bit hiker bike as well and I don't really mind that because it it just means that you're getting into places that are worth it. Um, but yet like the more technical the better ah from a personal point of view and but you know I've found that I Really enjoy guiding on the Gravel. Um, I quite enjoy doing that because a it's more accessible to more people and and also you kind of like have more opportunity to chat and kind of and you know like have a little bit more about the day and cover a bit more distance and stuff so kind of depends on the.
Pete
For me, it's anything like I enjoy ride my biking any terrain. But I think what gets me like giddy as a schoolgirl is like is is getting just that perfect bit of single track that has to keep you like really sharp and on your wits and ideally I'm kind of yeah I've I've got a tent. Hanging off my hand of ours and I know that I'm going to be riding the same thing again tomorrow like that that for me is some slice of heaven I think.
calltoadventure
Yeah, yeah, there's something very special about being in that like flow state when it's not too hard, but it's like taking all of you to concentrate to not come off the bike and then time is just flying and you get in that like meditative state. It's ah it's very very cool. Ah.
Pete
Yeah, definitely.
calltoadventure
You mentioned hike bike before for people that aren't familiar with hike bike what's hike bike.
Pete
Ah, it's it's basically taking your bike for a walk and and you know just however, you choose to do it. There's a few different techniques but generally speaking like I'll put my bike on my shoulders and and. And yeah, and and to take it up at the side of a mountain. It's ah it's it's it's not everyone's idea of fun but like I said it it usually you know it gets you into a place where you know the riding downhill is is far more enjoyable. So yeah, just basically taking your bike for a walk but um. I've definitely done some routes which are kind of ninety percent hiker bike and maybe ten percent riding and which probably yeah, they're not the stats that you really want and the end of a ride but and and it's it's all about exploring isn't it. So um. Yeah, certainly having the ability to kind of check your bike on your shoulder or on your back and hoke it off that side of a hill.
calltoadventure
Yeah, for people that haven't seen it before ah I was pretty surprised at what some people take their bikes up like you would think there's no way you'd go up there with a bike but people do so yeah, have a google take a look There's um, some pretty awesome ones I think 90 percent. Ah. Hiker biking is a pretty hardcore ratio. Ah I like a little bit because it feels hardcore. But I I think I'm out at like thirty percent but um, for for sure it means that you can open up some stuff where you're probably not going to find many others riding there if you've got a decent bit of hike bike. Do you have a favorite bike at the moment.
Pete
Oh that's a tough 1 and it's funny and I've been thinking a lot about bike I mean I think a lot about bikes anyway. But like and the bike industry and I just ah. Ah, just came back from a trip actually where I rode up to glasgow for cop 26 I did it on a 30 pound mountain bike that I bought off Facebook marketplace um, and it was a ninety ninety 1 rally massif and like rode it 3 hundred and fifty miles up to glasgow in in 3 days. And and carried all my kind of wild camper gear and stuff on it and after like the first day I kind of realized that it really didn't make that much difference like I was kind of just enjoying that ride I was riding mostly on the road a little bit of gravel and it just felt like riding my gravel bike and like not to say that? yeah. Um, I really enjoy riding my gravel bike as well. But I just kind of thought a bike is a bike and um I kind of yeah it kind of forced me to think a little bit about because I am definitely 1 of these people that's like N plus 1 yeah there's always something else that you need and um, you know. Having said that I wouldn't choose to ride that on kind of super technical terra like that kind of bike and actually the reason that I ah rode that that that you know Facebook marketplace bargain up to glasgow was. So I could give it to someone that was the concept I would give it to someone when I got it there and avoid having to like grapple with the trains to bring to to get back down again. So it's kind of like testing out an idea but it proved to me that you know that the bike doesn't matter so much. Having said that like and ah you know i. I guess what I keep coming back to for the sort of riding that I do is and like ah a fairly aggressive hard tail. So like a hard tail is a bike that doesn't have rear suspension. It's got a bit suspension at the front and and kind of aggressive angles in the sense that it's got quite a slack head angle. Um, and ideally um, you know with quite fat tires. So kind of sort of 20 7 point five plus so wheel size. So you're looking at a kind of 2 point 8 or 3 inch tire. Um I find that kind of. Is is a super versatile bike it. It kind of reminds me of the yeah the hardtails that I've always ridden since I was a kid and and it's a sort of bike that I can take away you know for you know, 5 days around the harlem five fifty or go to a downhill track and.
Pete
Like hu it off drops and yeah and do all that sort stuff too and it's like it's hard to think of another bike that you could do all that stuff on. So for me that bike at the moment is a Sonda transmitter. Um, and yeah, it's It's exactly that. It's just this sort of just the sweet spot of like being. Kind of the right angles and big fat tires and you know this this kind of bike that you can ride aggressively but you can you can also take on kind of pretty long trips and so so yeah I Guess that's the sort of my my dream bike that I keep coming back to and but you know. Give me any bike and I'll probably enjoy riding it or find a way to enjoy riding it.
calltoadventure
Ah, yeah I think it's good to do that sometimes isn't it like you can ride around on super fancy bike and then it's sometimes good to just ride something else like we did a ah mini cycle tour recently in Sweden I went out to go and see my girlfriend and we rode from where we used to live on a little island in there. Southeast of sweden called irland up to stockholm and I was on 1 of her dads like old it. You can't really call it a mountain bike but it had like suspension at the front and the the frame was kind of like a mountain bike and um it it definitely works. You know gets you from a to b. Having said that she was on 1 of those um don't really know what you caught like you know like a dutch bike I don't know what the proper name for it is but like where it's yeah yeah, a shopping bike she was on 1 of those with 1 gear and some pretty terrible breaks and whilst it's fairly flat round there.
Pete
Yeah, shopping by benefiting here.
calltoadventure
Um, her idea was like yeah, be great to show people that you know you can do this Stuff. You don't need loads of money to do it Ah bikes are just a great option. Everyone can do it and then after about 2 days she was like I mean you can do it but this is a lot harder compared to our. Like really nice hard tackles that we that we had on our big trip. So. It's definitely possible. But it's it's it's a bit of ah, a different story right? It's ah.
Pete
Yeah, and I guess use horses for courses isn't it like just you know, finding something that's got the right kind of gears for where you're going and all that sort of stuff. Um, but yeah I mean in my work like I've I've guided on plenty of like demo days for like all the big brands and you know ruin bikes that.
calltoadventure
Yeah, yeah.
Pete
Yeah, costs way more than I would ever spend on a bike thousands and thousands of pounds and like ultimately like once you get past a certain point like are you going to have like like exponentially more fun for every. Thousand more pounds that you spend on a bike and like in my experience like um, yeah, it's lovely to kind of try out I guess it's like you know, being able to drive a formula 1 car. Yeah, you kind of go wow this is like the best that could be but like.
calltoadventure
And.
Pete
You probably don't have the knowledge to kind of get the most out of it Anyway, for most people would like yeah I think like yeah, ah, a solid hardtail can kind of take you in most places for sure.
calltoadventure
Yeah, yeah, how did you actually get into biking at the start like what was your journey into mountain biking.
Pete
Ah, well I guess like most people you grow up just a bicycle Represents freedom doesn't it. It's that sort of like you know what? you've got to take your aunt to your friend's houses and you know take your off on adventures I was. Lucky lucky enough to kind of grow up around the countryside in various different places and like yeah just going exploring the woods and stuff so I kind of of probably like 12 or 13 when that transition kind of happened from being. Like just what I did with my mates to kind of suddenly kind of becoming interested in Mountain biking as a thing. Um and you know buying the magazines and kind of like looking at what? yeah the actual stuff that we were doing probably didn't change very much but that kind of like you know. Association with it as like a hobby or an activity like probably happened around that time and just you know just going down the woods and hacking around and things like that and I totally remember my my first kind of exposure to the idea that you could use a bike as a form of travel. And it was a guy that came into my school to give a talk. His name is rupert atley and and he wrote a kind of probably lesser known cycle touring book called the trail to tittiicaka and it was about a bike ride that they did across south america like way back in the like early ninety s late 80 s and then. He came to my school and did a slideshow and gave a talk and I was just like sold that was me and so like that Summer I was like I guess the thing was like I'd been reading you know like books by Joe simpson the kind of like mountaineering literature and kind of inspired by it. But also.
calltoadventure
More.
Pete
Like thinking well as a 12 year old 13 year old like um I don't have access to this like living in doorset. But I don't have access to these kind of adventures and then kind of heard this guy talk about this cycle tour and yeah, he was riding a bike not too dissimilar to mine. It was just a ninety s mountain bike and I was like.
calltoadventure
Ah, yeah.
Pete
I could totally do that and I could just do it from my back door and so that Summer kind of went to my parents and was like right? And yeah, me and my friend alex we're going to cycle. Round the isle of wight that was our kind of first adventure but looking back like credit to my parents to let this kind of like 12 - 13 year old go and do that by themselves and pack up their tent and just kind of go and we did it. We wrote we rode down to. Limington and got the ferry and and cycleground the other way. It took us like a week and then from that point onwards it was like every summer we had to do something more ambitious and and and go a bit further or go to a different country or something so and that was definitely like my way in to and yeah bike travel. Think and the 2 things have kind of overlapped and married up together. You know, but kind of there's my mountain biking as as a kind of sport as a hobby and then there's bike travel and that you know my my dream scenario is where those 2 things kind of meet in the middle.
calltoadventure
Yeah, that's really cool. You were young to start 12 going on your first bike tour.
Pete
Um, I mean I look at 12 year olds now and I'm like wow I would not let you go like I don't know a credit to my phone so I was just like wow that's that you know that's that's super cool.
calltoadventure
Yeah, yeah, it's ah it's such a like powerful experience as well. I think um in some ways kind of the earlier you can get it. It starts to teach you so many things right? like valuing things and. Not being lazy and just like having somewhere to stay and figuring things out for yourself self-reliance thing. It's really powerful thing. But um, yeah I wonder if I would let my 12 year old go I think maybe maybe we can use that like ours different times when you when when we're younger, but ah.
Pete
Yeah, yeah. I don't know maybe maybe it is I mean like yeah obviously now kind of my role is to try and help as many people do yeah, take those first steps anyway as possible. And we definitely get like I've helped like quite a few kids who've like wanted to like. For example, do their like duke of edinburgh and stuff on their bikes and and yeah I mean we were totally clueless as well. I remember being like stranded because we realized that the pump that we had wouldn't.
calltoadventure
Um.
Pete
Fit the valve that we had for our tyres and it was only like weeks later when I got back that I realized that if you just took the end out of the pump and flipped it around. But at the time we didn't know this so like I had to like go off on a big mission to go and find a bike shop like you know, 2 towns along and get them to pump the tire out and it's just like. Yeah, we were totally clueless. But I think it's just 1 of those and it's 1 of those things you can be I think you can and it can still be like an adventure and you don't have to go very far. So and yeah, that was that was me that was the the moment the bug bit.
calltoadventure
Yeah.
calltoadventure
You you were young to learn that lesson so we've got a youtube video that will come out soon that where I learned that and how old was I like 26 I didn't know that you just swept it round and I feel when I watch it back I just feel so stupid and there's. Us we cycle out and then I'm like oh we got. We've bought the wrong adapter and then we go all the way back to this town that we've just come from that's like miles away and we hadn't cycled for a couple of weeks because I'd had like knee injuries and were filming the whole thing and I was go into the bike shop and then the guy's like haven't you been cycling for like 3 months. And was like yeah and he's like how how do you not know this, you just turn it around and I was like ah um and it was yeah it was it was amazing so there you go the early you start that early. You make the learn learn the important stuff. Yeah, so how about the the Mountain bike.
Pete
But.
Pete
There you go you get those out of the way.
calltoadventure
Guiding like when did you when did you get into that stuff.
Pete
Ah, so kind of I guess a little bit by accident like I did ah and an outdoor studies degree and did that in the late district it was in ambleside and and ah kind of Well so the reason I was doing that degree was because and when I was younger I'd kind of like done the application process to and to join the military and kind of got my spot. Um, as as an officer and and they kind of said. Well, it'd be good if you went to uni so I just kind of. Flipped through the ucase directory looking for you know the course that looked most fun. Um and outdoor studies kind of sprung out of me and I was like okay well that's cool I can do that and I've got a job at the end of it anyway. So I don't need to worry like I guess what I didn't bargain for was that like those years of
Pete
Kind of being really inspired by some amazing lectures and things like in this outdoor studies degree and also meeting like a really eclectic group of people and realizing that you can have adventures in all sorts of different ways and probably getting like kind of politically a little bit more engaged with what was going on in the world back in. 2013 I um I kind of came out the other end of it being like well I I don't I don't want to be in the military anymore and I kind of yeah I kind of from a sort of political point of view in the middle of iraq and afghanistan I was kind of like no I don't this isn't.
calltoadventure
Um.
Pete
But route I want to take so I was kind of left with this gaping hole in my future. Um, and I'd been away traveling and and I kind of thought well if I. When I made that decision I was like well if I go back to the Lake District I I'm gonna have a floor to crash on I'm gonna have like friends around and so I kind of ended up back in ambleside and I was working at a bike shop. Um in ambleside place for bike tres and just realized that. I wasn't that good at selling stuff because I was way more likely to tell someone that that the thing that they were already using was probably good enough. Um, and that you know don't Why do you need? new bike things like this and but what. Did really enjoy doing was like leading and and taking people out on the shop rides. Um and in demo days and and things like that and I kind of just thought well I much prefer riding with people than selling people Bikes. So while I was there I did my kind of qualifications.
calltoadventure
And.
Pete
Up in the lakes and really then was kind of like well how do you get a job as a mountain bike guide but it just seemed like such a kind of a far flung thing like something that other people did and and I didn't really know my way in so just started kind of putting. Ah, few feelers out and and I saw a job advertised out in Andalusia in spain and I was like that that I mean that looked amazing if I could you know just ride bikes and drink beer in the sunshine as a kind of 22 year old 23 year old that would be ideal. Um. And so just put an application in for it and and and got the job like based on that so that was really kind of my first proper guiding job and it was full time accommodation included just doing the seasons out there and and you know. Ah, times are pretty tough because you kind of five days. Backto -back guiding 1 day transfer in between and then you've got another group out and some groups that would come out were and you know super cool. Just like riding with your friends and others were really hard work and as as with any things but and. Ah, guess just doing a couple of years of that just for then just kind of cemented me of like well I know what I'm doing now like this is ah you know this is something which is actually kind of my career as opposed to you know a hobby um and you know it was it was after that point that. Me and alice decided to go andcycl off to new zealand and but kind of coming back from that I found it much easier to kind of just go well, of course I should be getting hired to do kind of mountain butke guarding jobs because you know I've I've got more experience than most people I know and like and so I definitely think that's spain. Job was like kind of what solidified it for me and doing it for you know like a good few seasons and kind of yeah gave me a lot of experience I guess.
calltoadventure
And.
calltoadventure
And for people who are listening who are thinking about maybe going into manabbite guiding any advice for them as they look to go into it. You mentioned a little ah bit there about how it's great. Some some groups are a really cool. Some are. A lot tougher work as you'll get with everything when you work with people right? but um, any other bits of advice for people who are thinking about going into it or trying to get into Mountain bike guiding.
Pete
Yeah I mean I Definitely think that shopwork is a really good way into the bike industry like it gives you kind of like a knowledge of like you know your way around a bike and it's also if you do that at the same time as like Maybe. Try and get your qualifications then it gives you lots of Opportunities. You can always guide kind of free shop rides. Um or you know set something up or just do stuff that kind of allows you to build up your logbook and get that experience in place because like I think there's lots of people who are really competent mountain bikers who.
Pete
Like look. It's it's different guiding. It's the same with anything like you can kind of you can be very competent but you're not necessarily a good guide. Um, because you know your focus really has to be on. Yeah, the needs of the clients and you know showing people a good time and making sure that they enjoy the ride. But also if there's any kind of issues mechanical or you know accidents and stuff like you need to be able to kind of not just get people back I think that's like the minimum you can do like you get people back and still. Have like the majority of people having like the best day ever like that's like what really kind of makes a good guide so the more you can practice that the better. Um, and yeah, if if I think you know working in a shop kind of really gave me the opportunity to to dial that in and to practice at the same time as doing my quas. Um, in terms of and it's difficult in the yeah uk I think like to certainly to try and get like a full time job. Um, you know it seems to be that everyone's either kind of freelancer and or you're kind of working out of like a center like an outbu center where. Mountain biker might just be part of your role. Um and quite often. The work is with the kind of the the more kind of beginner end of the Market. Um. So yeah, the dream of kind of like you know, riding kind of hard technical trails day in and out and and you know just doing what you love to do is not necessarily like an easy reality to kind of get um unless you kind of do something like you know, go and do seasons somewhere and and so that's probably another way in. Um, once you've kind of got a bit of experience and you know just just badger people like just put your name out there. But but what but lot of people I've now had lots of people ask me for work and what a lot of people don't realize is that with the internet. Ah, company can seem like a really well-est establishlished kind of big company whereas. Actually it's just 1 person. Um, and so when people yeah I got within my first couple of months of running a bench bedlars I I think I probably had more people ask me for jobs than I had clients like and it's kind of like well I don't even. You know, make enough out of this to kind of support myself. Let alone kind of have another person and so I think just being kind of do a bit of research and yeah, be aware like when you're kind of applying for companies and and trying to get jobs. But and yeah like.
Pete
It's obviously a bit of a competitive world and and you're doing a job that a lot of people would probably do for free and that's always a tough place to be because you've always got some people who may be retired or they don't need the work who are kind of happy to go out and do mountain bike guiding because it's what they find fun. And and it's tough because that like undervalues the people who are actually trying to make it a career and but there is there are ways definitely for sure.
calltoadventure
Mean yeah, yeah, and how about your actual tour then so you've done a lot of different stuff. But your tour sounds pretty awesome couple of years u k to new Zealand. Um. Interesting honeymoon experience. You've obviously got a really cool wife. Um how how did that all come about. She's obviously into riding as well.
Pete
Well actually no, she wasn't like at the beginning. Um, yeah, we'd I'd got that job in Spain we'd moved out Spain together. Um. So we'd already been living like kind of fairly isolated in a little like andalusian mountain village for like a couple of years so we were kind of like you know, pretty comfortable with each other and like our own company at that point and we were sort of just 1 day contemplating what we might be doing Next. And alice had said you know she'd really like to go back to new zealand she'd spent a bit of time there before and I'd I'd always had the idea to do a big bike trip like ever since I was that kid like that 1213 year old like I was kind of like I want to go and go around the world or ride across America and I'd come up with different plans at different. Stages in my life and it hadn't quite happened. You know for 1 reason or another and so when she sort of said oh I quite like live in new zealand I just kind of flippantly said just she recycle there and she just she just said yeah and and like. Ah, for the next couple of weeks I was like are you sure I mean I'm kind of serious are you serious like and after a while she just got annoyed with me bugging her about that and she was like yes we're doing it right? like just leave it out. So then we kind of just set about trying to you know, save some money and kind of. And we put things in place and we'd we'd set our date for leaving because we were like like we wanted to get over some of the big mountain ranges. So we kind of had to work back from when the passes were open and stuff like this and and it was only a bit later that we decided that um.
calltoadventure
Yeah.
Pete
You know what would be the best way to get everyone to come to our leaving party and and we were like well let's get married and then everyone has to come to our leaving party and so the the idea of getting married the the idea of it being a honeymoon as she came quite a long time after like we were kind of planning to do the trip. Um, and as it turned Out. You know it was fantastic way to do it like you know we had this kind of amazing sendoff party. Um, but also you know people when they were kind of like oh what should we get you for your wedding Present. We were like right? we need a tent and sleeping bags and like and eat this and this. So like our wedding list was basically our kit list for that trip. So It kind of worked out pretty well um in the end. But yeah, um.
calltoadventure
That's awesome. What what? a cool way to do it.
Pete
But not that that was the only reason we got married but I took to get a new sleeping bag. But um, people there were some people that were like oh ah, you sure you want to get married before you go on this bike trip like maybe afterwards would be a better idea. But like I said yeah, we were. We were pretty solid by the time we got to that point. Um, but yeah alice hadn't done really very much cycling at all. You know she'd been more of a rock climber when I met her and okay, she'd done a bit while we were out in Spain because that's what we were doing but and yeah like we started doing by doing like 30.
calltoadventure
And.
Pete
Forty kiloometer days in the netherlands and yeah, there would be tears at the end of it. You know we were like going really slowly and it just went to show that you know you so keep doing something for months and months and months and eventually it's just like it become you know our fitness levels definitely balanced out.
calltoadventure
Um, and.
Pete
Um, and I think what it gave me was just if I hadn't done that kind of trip by myself I would have been in a rush like I think we met lots of like solo young male cycle tour is on the road and and. They all seem to be a little bit in a rush like okay I've got to do 1 hundred miles a day and you know I totally understand that because I've since done you know exactly that like kind of tried to push myself and in yeah done the kind of the physical thing but the fact that we were doing it as a couple and the fact that it was our honeymoon. Meant that we just we enjoyed doing shorter days. We enjoyed sometimes just waking up and being like oh we're in a beautiful camp spot. How much food have we got. Okay, we've got enough food should we just stay here for the day and just read our books and sit in the sunshine and. You know and doing that and also just you know talking to so many people and always saying yes to invitations and kind of led it to be a totally different trip to to the 1 that I would have probably done by myself and and and it kind of taught me a huge amount more because of that. Like just a totally different style. So yeah, we took 2 and a half years 1 we do like 2 years of riding to get to and new zealand and I think we averaged like and like fifty K a day or something like that like really not big distances and and like say it was because we were yeah probably spending as much time off the bike as we were on the bike and and you know just the adventure was so much more than just about cycling and and and I think that that kind of taught me a lot and. And and it's what we've kind of tried to tell other people about like afterwards like it's not about it doesn't have to be about like big physical challenges. Even though when you say I've cycled twenty thousand kimeters people go oh my god I could never do that and so actually you could like it's not difficult. You just have to give yourself long enough. And that's the thing like so and yeah that that that I think was the the kind of the big eye opener of that shit for me.
calltoadventure
Yeah, it's really interesting and I think a great way to look at it and um, 1 of the things when I look back now after being really busy before our bike trip and I used to work in um, finance in london and had always been like pretty busy and then. And then had like looked forward to this bike trip kind of similar thing I got the idea from a mate henry who'd cycled to sydney from the uk so I I was like I want to do a big bike trip but do something different because he's already smashed that and then alaska to argentina is like another 1 that's. Similar distance. Um, and then just kind of had the idea wrote it on the whiteboard and then I told my girlfriend I was like what do you think? and then she was just like yeah yeah I guess like I guess we could and then it didn't really feel real and then it just kind of kept settling in and we're getting more and more excited. Ah. And then we finally went and it kind of felt surreal quit the job and then you know left and then you're on the plane out to alaska and you're thinking holy shit like we're actually starting like a giant bike trip and we weren't cyclists really beforehand. But there are. Really appreciate like what you said about how the trip was a lot more because you cycled slower because I think probably I would have got more into the doing just by yourself. Um, and I don't know whatever it is as as a bloke um for lots of reasons you probably end up doing the 1 hundred mileers and getting there. And we only ended up getting halfway in eighteen months so we've finished in Panama for lots of reasons. Um, but ah, but so yeah, we went a lot slower than anticipated but 1 of the things that I look back now and now that I'm really busy again with life as most people are um.
Pete
Perfect. Yeah.
calltoadventure
The the 1 thing 1 of the the most important and and special things was just having that time like we never have that in adult life really in Western society now and it's so unbelievably precious to like not have much to do. And to be able to just read a book or to say yes to things not to always have to be rushing around and I think our mental health in well in lots of ways it was like very challenging and and you know always finding a new place to sleep and you always have to be kind of on with new people. Um, there's there's lots of challenges to it as well. But there's something about just knowing that all you've got to do is ride your bike 50 kilometers today and it's just incredible and if you don't want to then it's okay, you can just stay where you are and like you say accept the invites from strangers to go to a barbecue or go to some guys.
Pete
Yeah, yeah.
calltoadventure
Ah, kids christening who you met fifteen minutes ago and they want to invite you out for tacos and it's ah it's such a special thing that I think will stay with us forever and and it's always good to remind yourself of.
Pete
Um I I think you also you don't no 1 can really point the finger at you and say well most people anyway like wouldn't point the finger at you and say look you're doing nothing with your life. Because everyone's always bowled over by the fact that you've ridden for like a year in 1 direction and they're just like oh my god that's amazing and and actually it's kind of like yeah again, like the people wish I could be that motivated and it's like.
calltoadventure
Yeah.
Pete
In a lot of ways. This is the laziest thing I could think of doing because I don't need to think about anything that's going on and like you say it's a privilege. It's like for for us. It was like yeah like I guess the narrative we told ourselves was that like we were in the middle of a recession anyway, we set off in 2012
calltoadventure
Um, yeah.
Pete
All our mates were kind of clinging on to jobs. They didn't really like anyway so we were just like yeah we we didn't have a lot of money and for for that reason as well. You know, always wildcamping like always needing to find people like to help us out really like and you know certainly going through europe and stuff we were on about. Six euros a day budget and but it meant that you know that whole 2 year trip was like less than the price of a small car like it was and and so when people kind of said. Ah you know I wish I could afford to do this. It's like well you can just. Sell the car you're driving. That's all you need to do and then you can go and and but yeah, that indulgence I think is probably the word. It took us a little while to get used to it I remember the first probably month and I think it was kind of weird because we started from home. So we didn't get out to like South america to begin with and in our heads like all the planning most of which incidentally kind of went out the window at some stage on the trip like but all of the kind of the planning and kit and the ideas were all about things like the pame highway in tajikistan and.
calltoadventure
Um.
Pete
You know, like cycling over the himalayas like all that that was what was in the front of our minds and then we started by getting the Ferry from Newcastle to Amsterdam and we were riding through the netherlands kind of being like this sort of um cognitive dissonance of like.
calltoadventure
Ah, ah.
Pete
This isn't tajiki stand. It's kind of like and then kind of feeling because we've been so busy planning a wedding and stuff as well. Like before we left we were just like what we're doing. We should be doing something and and kind of put way too much pressure on ourselves to begin with and it definitely took like. I mean this is how slow travel goes isn't it but like it probably took us the first but first month to kind of settle into it and then just to kind of go right? Okay, you just got a role with it and and and yeah, that's probably when it it kind of really found its rhythm rather than kind of.
calltoadventure
Um.
calltoadventure
And.
Pete
You know, beating yourself up because you haven't got far enough or or things like this like you just kind of like you say realize that all you've got to do is just keep generally moving in 1 direction. Um, and and in some ways a lot of the time that didn't feel that adventurous either like I definitely remember. Points of the trip and where we were like we need to start having an adventure and then it's kind of like stand back a little bit and re're cycling across the desert in Uzbekistan and like we'd written there from Europe and it is like we need to start having an adventure so like and it's like um I I guess.
calltoadventure
And.
Pete
It sort of it taught me so many things and and definitely 1 of them was that that idea of adventure is um is a state of mind for a lot of way like in a lot of ways like you can be. Having what a lot of people would consider the adventure of a lifetime and and not necessarily feel like it. But at the same time you can you know, go out of your back door and sleep in the woods you know in the middle of a city and and it and it totally feels like it. So um, yeah, it just. Kind of gave us a lot of perspective on a lot of things and and you know for that reason it changed it changed my life. It changed our lives and it's kind of um, informed everything that we've done since and and what's been super cool is like the after coming back and giving a few talks and you you're kind of just spreading the word a little bit. We've had people who've literally quit their jobs and kind of gone like come back to us like six months or a year or whatever later and be like you guys. You inspired us to go off and do this and now we've done it and it's changed everything and it's like yeah yeah, it will do that and that for me is like you know that kind of giddy moment that you just realize that you've. You've helped make a difference in someone's life. So that's definitely what I try and do as much as possible. Um now and on whatever scale that that's appropriate.
calltoadventure
Yeah, really cool. Did yours go fairly without a hitch or any close calls.
Pete
Um, yeah I mean again, it depends how you look at it like um, ah on some levels and yes and ah, you know we didn't get held up at gunpoint or any of that stuff and people were like oh did you ever feel you threatened and. Like no, not really and but um, we had a few injury issues. So alice's back spasmd and quite severely for the first time like on the border with Afghanistan um on the pamir highway in a place called kurrog and. She literally just woke up 1 day and couldn't stand up straight like physically just couldn't straighten up her body and kind of remained that way for about eighteen days and and we were in this like little frontier town middle of nowhere. Um, and yeah I mean looking back. If you'd told me before we started the trip that we would be stranded on the afghan border like in a place where you know the year before and I think the year after as well like they had like civil war. Um, you know I would probably kind of go wow like in in a sort of slightly starry eyed and. Also terrified kind of idea of like well that's going to be like this crazy adventure. But again the reality of it was that you know we just hung out on this balcony on the guest house that we they'd let us put our tent on the balcony and and then we met loads of other cycle tourists that kind of came past and. Fortunately, 1 of the guys he pete he was an irishman he he was a gp back in the yeah uk and so kind of he was able to assess or with the help of like some yeah skype calls like to colleagues like assess her and make sure that it wasn't kind of like a trip endder.
Pete
And yeah, we kind of just stayed put for that and but that and we got going again and and then it happened again. Um, actually just again in the workplace. Unlike the second highest pass in the world between lay and manalli. Um, in the in the indian himalayas and yeah, she just woke up 1 morning and couldn't couldn't stand up and and then on that occasion we had to hitchhike to get ourselves down because the so snow was coming in and thinking now all of those things seem like. Huge hitches of course. Yeah we we had to take a month of the bike. We weren't sure whether or not. We'd start again. Actually the only way we could start again was by dismantling our 2 touring bikes and building a tandem in kathmandu.
calltoadventure
My way.
Pete
And for the first time either of us had ridden the tandem was like out of the center of Kamandu in order to so that alice didn't have to like handle the weight of the bike and all these things seemed like you know, big hurdles to overcome and like you know, um, adversity to kind of battle through but again at the time it was just.
calltoadventure
Are.
Pete
Life. It's just what we're doing and kind of just dealt with it. So it's yeah that I suppose that's probably quite a long-winded answer to that question. But and yeah, it didn't feel like there was too many challenges. But now I look back there definitely were for sure.
calltoadventure
And no, no, it's.
calltoadventure
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because you've done both the kind of cycle touring and bike packing bike racing stuff and there's not that many people who do both, There's people who really enjoy travel by Bike. Um, but they they do it for the kind of cultural experience or there tends to be people who are they love biking and they're just like I want to stay on my bike for as long as I can and they like they love the racing So It's interesting that you've done both how how was the like what's the experience like of say doing the.
Pete
Is.
calltoadventure
Soap road mountain ah race. So it's seventeen hundred kilometers in kyrgyzstan twenty 6000 meters of climbing and it's mainly off-road. So it's a bit of a monster. Um, what's it what's what's it like
Pete
I.
Pete
I guess like and it's another way in a strange sort of way. It's another way of being completely indulgent and like and ignoring everything else that's going on in the world and obviously you can't. You can't legitimately refer to an experience like that as lazy but on some level like that's how I see it. It's like it's allowing me to block out. Absolutely everything that's going on in my life and I think it was definitely coming back from that trip and you know speaking to a lot of people. We've come back from big cycle tours or big long adventures of any kind and there is that aftermath and it's something that we don't always talk about too much but there's this kind of like and process that you go through um and I struggle for sure like for at least a year although you could probably say I'm still struggling on some level now of like just fitting back into society and you know you go from your life being very simple and feeling like you're quite outside of and the normal society to all of a sudden having to deal with things like.
calltoadventure
Um, man.
Pete
Tax bills and you know internet and like how many different kinds of washing up liquid. There were in the supermarkets to choose from and like all of that kind of stuff and so I needed when I when we came Back. Um. I needed something else to to kind of aim for and and yeah, our circumstances were that I could we couldn't just disappear again and carry on yeah like and and not that we kind of wanted to either at that stage. But um and I needed something else to aim for and it needed to kind of fit in to life. And so but at the same time I wanted something equally as challenging and big and and kind of ambitious. So a friend of mine had done this high on 55 and I kind of thought that's a test like you know and a big race like that and and I entered it just kind of. Really just hoping that I could complete it. It was something that I kind of you know I thought I would test myself I probably if I did complete it I probably wouldn't have to do anything like that again like that's it. Um, and I did it that first year and kind of got around a bit quicker than how I expected to? Um. Certainly did you know longer days than I'd ever done before and rather than kind of thinking you know that's that's it like at the end of that first year I was kind of like how do I go faster next year that was like the the first thing that cropped into my head was like okay if I didn't sleep as much then or if I carried a bit lighter kit or if I did this and it was just like all of a sudden again that was just like the the bug had bitten and so kind of signed up to do the hot and five fifty again and at the same time kind of heard about this silk road mountain race. And kind of that was starting up and actually Kyrgyzstan was a place that we cycled for on our trip and it was probably the 1 country I kind of regretted a little bit because just for various reasons we were looking to try and we had a lot of like admin to sort out so we were kind of like just. Rushing to get through Kyrgyzstan so that we could get to the capital bishkerk and kind of work out our visas and we had friends to meet and things like this and so I totally felt like we didn't do the country justice and you know usually we would go the. Kind of the route least traveled and like try and get off the beaten path and stuff and we just in Kyrgyzstan we just took the main road and went straight through the country and and and probably didn't enjoy it that much and I felt like we'd done this amazing country a bit of a disservice and.
Pete
So when I saw that there was ah you know 1 of these bike packing races out there I was like wow it yeah, that sounds like an amazing adventure. But it also allows me to kind of go back and kind of settle that score a little bit and just kind of feel like I kind of experienced that place of best I could and so. Yeah I mean the experience of doing that kind of racing is I don't know it's the best way I can describe it is this kind of like reckless abandon that you get that if and if you want to like when I was. Younger perhaps but like on a night out or at a festival and something and you're like I really should go to bed I'm gonna I'm gonna you know, regret doing this all night. Ah, but actually that feeling of when the sun comes up and you're kind of you're still out and partying and having a great time like you you could just think well. Future pete will just have to deal with it like I'm I'm not having too much of a good time and that is kind of the same way I feel about this sort self-supported racing like you're doing stuff that ultimately you know you're going to pay for like your body's gonna hate you for the fact that you've just rid like for 24 hours straight or whatever. Um, but. Like somewhere in you it kind of gives you that and that that kind of just feeling of reckless abandon and and from a kind of mental point of view. It definitely kind of it found that there was like an itch to scratch. Um. And and in those ways they're quite addictive because you kind of you come back and then you're like okay like for a little while I don't need to do anything else. I'm really pleased with like the kind of the challenge that I set myself and and I've kind of achieved that and then you know after a few more months you're kind of like okay, what's next. When am we going to get another chance to do that and you know it it takes its toll because you like I couldn't feel my feet for about six months after doing that silk road mountain race like you know there's like all sorts of nerve damage and like backs not being right since and all that sort of stuff but and it kind of mentally. Think like the fact that it's a race for me isn't that important from a kind of competitive point of view but it's a format that allows you to push yourself to the point where you get these kind of crazy flow states of I mean you know. It's how people kind of describe like really intense meditation and stuff for me anyway, like where you have this kind of detached feeling of being like a kind of a river flowing through a landscape or some kind of crazy stuff like this and you have you.
calltoadventure
Then.
Pete
Do Big big days and you can get some slightly kind of hallucogenic states of like tiredness and like I wouldn't push myself Well I don't like I can't find a place to push myself that hard unless it's in the context of a race. Um, you know if I'm going out by myself I might do a big day but at some point I'm just gonna think oh I'm tired now I'm gonna get in bed whereas like in ah in that kind of racing context it kind of just allows you to push that a little bit further which kind of gets you into this kind of strange and magical zone. Like where you know you you just feel very at 1 with the landscape. Um, and I think that's what but that's where they're for me anyway, that's where their kind of beauty lies and and yeah you you you pay the price in the long run. But but. Yeah, mentally that I think they're they're quite special experiences.
calltoadventure
Really cool I would love I would love to do one one day you're insert in a weird way selling it who's who's riding these is it invite only or how do you get to take part.
Pete
Ah.
Pete
Look so um, there's lots of them now and I think this kind of self-supported scene is is just a really fast growing part of biking and. Yeah I don't think it's anything new I mean I think it's probably got more in common with the sort of the addition the the original tour de France kind of riding at the you know in the the late nineteenth twentieth century kind of. Those pictures black and white pictures of people carrying like a spare tie around their shoulder and you know staying in kind of b and b's around France whilst kind of shooting down a brandy at the start line and getting off on your kind of you know that kind of wild west.
Pete
Sort of cycle racing and I think is kind of probably where it has its roots really and so I don't think it's anything new and but I think the the way that and you gps has kind of revolutionized how you can create an event like you can literally just. Put a route out there and you know in in the case of something like the highland five Fifty. It's you know it's it's just a group of people that happen to meet in a car park. Um, and you know we'll ride this route. And may or may not compare times afterwards like it's kind of it's certainly not a race like that kind of thing like it's all fairly underground whereas like I guess like Nelson's events like the silk road mountain race and and um atless mountain race and they're they're probably. That little bit more ambitious in terms of where they're set and so kind of lend themselves a bit more to your checkpoints and you know support vehicles and and therefore sponsorship and and you know a little bit more media coverage and stuff as well and most of them are. Well, it's it's certainly amateur very amateur in the sense that like there's very seldom any kind of prize money. Usually no entry fee and to to do them although sometimes you pay a bit of a fee to to do it. But the um, ah. Mix of people is really eclectic because of this like it's kind of you know you've got people who will literally just try and get round within the allotted time and who who are just kind of totally regular. You know, not not even you mega endurance endurance athletes just people that want the challenge.
calltoadventure
Um.
Pete
And and then you've got the people who are winning these things who are you know to all intense purposes like incredible elite athletes. Um, but you know like you take for example, like and sufian who who's who's winning a load of this stuff at the moment he was like ah a cycle courier in france. Yeah, but like there's been examples of of you know pro riders getting smashed out the water in these events like people coming from the tour de france and stuff and and just not being able to deal with the kind of. Yeah, like riding very fast for a couple of days but then kind of not being able to deal with the hardships of sleep deprivation and being self-supported and sleeping in a ditch and stuff so within that kind of yeah within a field you've probably got people who are just you know, kind of.
calltoadventure
And.
Pete
Hobbyists or people that have been on the cycle tour who kind of you know, fancy having a go at something a bit more challenging. Um all the way up to total crazy individuals who you know I certainly have kind of come. Close enough to that I realize I will never be 1 of these guys. You know like don't have that sort of like Thousand yard stare and that that bit ability to just kind of really push yourself. Um, and yeah, so I think everyone finds their own place in it and like say it's getting more popular now. But the um. Think the general format is and is pretty makeshift um like homemade kind of racing and that's what I love about it. You know it's this kind of underground thing. Having said that quite often when you do apply you kind of have to show that you are certainly for the more remote. Races like you have to show that you're capable of looking after yourself. So for me when I kind of first signed up to the highland five fifty I kind of said that I just got back from cycling to new zealand and that kind of that did it as a kind of of like okay well you probably can look after yours yourself sort of thing. Um.
calltoadventure
Um.
Pete
So yeah, there's there's usually a bit of like a a filtering process to make sure people are going to be all right? But in terms of the kind of people that do it. It's really varied and a lovely kind of group of dirt bags like that that are you know all inspirational.
calltoadventure
Yeah.
Pete
Parts of of that in their own right.
calltoadventure
Yeah I Love I Love that idea of the kind of the good old days I think I'm doing a lot of climbing now and it's It's really changed from you see what climbing used to be like the full dirt bag um kind of dropouts of society just doing climbing.
Pete
2
calltoadventure
As a kind of way to escape whereas now. It's been very much formalized in a sport and it's in the olympics and it's and it's changed and there's an interesting tension there. But ah, 1 of these bike races sounds good I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to have a look at an easy 1 and and do 1 1 day. But for for people who are looking to. Getting to bike packing and do their first first trip what ah what's kind of the bare minimum. What what bike just easy stuff. What bike should they go for um and. What is the bare minimum that they need to get out and just have their first bike packing adventure if they're like yeah this sounds cool I'm not ready for the silk road yet. But I just want to go out this weekend and have a razz.
Pete
Yeah I mean look like the let's say this this trip that I just did um, really kind of looked at that and kind of examined like how how little you could get away for and you know my my challenge really was I wanted to go up to glasgow to cup 26 my challenge was to to to get there and and including the bike buying of the bike I wanted to get there for less than my train fare cost me to get back. So it kind of really present it as like a ah viable travel alternative because. Ah, the end of the day. Yeah, we talk about bike packing and you know these kind of sport elements of cycling at the same time. It is just ah, a mode of transport and and it's you know a kind of underappreciated mode of transport I don't know if you found this like after you get back from like a big journey on a bike. You start to think of distance differently like if I thought oh I'm 200 miles from london I'd be like no okay so I could ride that in like 2 and a half days like whereas now. Obviously I think okay, that's going to take me you know a couple hours to drive you know, um and I really like thinking. Just changing your perception and I think there's lots of good reasons. Why more people should think about Journeys in that way because you know public transport's really expensive. You know, um and from an environmental point of view. We. We kind of can't just be thinking about driving our own cars all the time for everything. Um, and so you know obviously the bicycle for for me. Anyway, you know it's it's the most efficient mode of transport that humans have ever invented and you can go long distances on it and and it don't it doesn't just get you from a to b but it gives you this kind of.
calltoadventure
Um, and.
Pete
Nature connectedness and kind of gets you talking to people that you would never normally talk to and all these kind of good things. So I think it you know from a kind of point of view of like just a tool for traveling around. You know if you had like I did you know I got into Facebook marketplace but. Perfectly good like old Mountain bike for thirty pounds and you know there was really nothing wrong with it at all like I changed the pedals because I preferred clip in pedals. But other than that I didn't really change anything on it. Um, and then. You know you can strap some kit to it and you know I've definitely been on lots of bike packing journeys probably before bike packing was a thing where like a dry bag bungeeed to the handlebars and the seat would pretty much do it and equally you know like I know it's sort of the the. Image of bike packing is using these kind of specially made bags. But yeah, you couldn't get a rack like and just kind of you know strap a shopping bag to it. Yeah I met people cycling across continents that had kind of just bought. Ah, cheap bike in china and strapped baskets to the side of it and were kind of halfway across Asia making their way Back. So like there's totally loads of ways you can do it Um, and but I would say you know from a point of view of making your life easy. But we spoke about gears before like making sure that you've got a bike that's got some gears on it. So like when I bought that bike to go up to glasgow I was kind of like oh should I get like a vintage road bike I was like no because I have got across yorkshire and northumberland and the scotch borders and.
calltoadventure
Um, right.
Pete
Ah, knew the route was hilly so I was got like yeah a you know old road bike gearing would totally destroy me. Um, so for that reason your mountain bike is a good idea because you can kind of you can stick it in ah, an easy gear and they're generally pretty comfortable to ride for people so and and then. In terms of the kit that you need you know some simple bags. Yeah bike packing bags do make life a lot easier and you know we we hire them out to people because we don't believe that people should buy new stuff for every trip that they do and so. You know like you can either do that or you or you can just you know, get some relatively cheap bags or or take an an existing dry bag and and strap it to your bike but you know in in a very simple sense. You need a sleeping bag or bivy and and some clothes. And and that's about it really like you know you can you can go and certainly just you know have a night out in the woods pretty much like that. Um I think once you do it a couple of times you'll be like oh okay, that didn't work very well. This worked much better like I could do with this like oh it'd be nice to have a stove. Yeah, you start building things in as you have that experience but in terms of you know, like just going out and having a go like really is very very simple but what we find what I find a lot with my work now is that a lot of people see barriers. A lot of people see like oh I don't have the right kit. It's in the amount of people that said to me like oh I'd love to give bike packing a go but I need to buy the right bike first and it's like you totally don't you can just if you have a bike you can do it like you can you can just strap some bags to it and go and and then you'll figure it out. You'll figure out what you kind of prefer doing. Um, yeah, if you if you you want to go for a bit longer. You know take a tent maybe um, but I think just starting out small. Um and and just kind of experimenting. Um, even if it's just you know riding a few k into your local woods. Sleeping in a biby and coming back for breakfast the next day like that will teach you so much and it will give you so much of a novel experience and and you know it might not always be pleasant. It might not always be the kind of like you see it on Instagram um, but actually I think. With a bit of reflection. You'll kind of see that it's valuable these experiences and and then once you realize you can get from a to b like then all of a sudden you know the world's your oyster and and I think that I think and more people kind of realize that will will be in a slightly better place.
Pete
Um, in in a lot of ways.
calltoadventure
So there. We go easy to get out on your first or next bike packing adventure. Ah pete. Thanks so much for coming on. It's been really awesome to chat hear a bit about your biking escapades. And yeah, we'll I'll look forward to. We'll have to go for a ride at some point I'll come up and we'll and we'll go for ah for a little bite packing adventure. But yeah, it's been really awesome to chat? So thanks for taking the time. It's been great.
Pete
Yeah, definitely.
Pete
And we but make some plans for for this year as well with some more call to aveture stuff.
calltoadventure
Yeah, sounds Good. So yeah, if you want to go and take a ride out with Pete go and see what he's doing then head over to call Toadventure Uk and you can book on some trips there just look at bike packing stuff. Um, but otherwise pete. Thanks again for coming on listeners. Thanks for tuning in so until next time. Thanks Very much Bye bye.
Pete
Thank you bye-bye.
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